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Author Topic: GROOMING 101: SCISSORING (links, and more links!!)  (Read 34242 times)
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EDDEL
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« on: September 12, 2006, 05:19:14 AM »

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BenjisMommy
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2006, 01:56:59 PM »

Although I will never ever groom Benji myself I think it is great of you Del to share this info...... I know many members will find this VERYYYYYYYYYYY useful..... and I just love reading about the techniques even though there is no way I will try them myself  Laughing Laughing

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2006, 04:53:14 PM »

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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2006, 10:42:12 AM »

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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2006, 12:58:40 PM »

« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 01:06:59 PM by EDDEL » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2006, 01:02:13 PM »

Del.. did you take school to learn all this  Laughing I can't believe all the information you have in that brain of yours  shocking2... Pretty impressive...  thumbup

Thank you for taking the time to put this together for us Hug
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« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2006, 01:49:08 PM »

Thank you Del - GREAT Links!   thumbup
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« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2006, 04:12:52 PM »

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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2006, 07:29:52 AM »

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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2006, 09:18:07 AM »

Wow--thanks Del for another great and informative thread.  I'm gonna look over the links you provided and try to pick up some tips.  One of these days I'm gonna give grooming a try.  With two, it's a little expensive.  I don't worry as much about trimming them from the neck down, it's their heads that scare me to death.   Oh My 
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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2006, 10:43:53 AM »

 Not Worthy Another GOLDMINE thread, Del! Clap

Even if Betty is Frenchylicious, blush I'm very intrigued thinking (and not a little awed shocking2 ) by the so-called American powderpuff 'do, and will be oggling this thread and its terrific links thumbup often! clapping

Admittedly, I'm glad to be admiring it from afar:  it looks extremely daunting! sweatdrop

Even if the "au natural" French show cut/look is a walk in the park Kicking compared to the powder-puffin,' actually it's very rare even in France that a pet bichon be kept in a French show 'do.  They're usually kept in a more practical "pet cut," too!

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« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2006, 11:09:25 AM »

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« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2006, 01:10:10 PM »

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« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2006, 09:34:13 AM »

Theresa, for the notes about the au naturel look.  I'll be sure to talk about the FRENCH LOOK too in Part III original

Woohoo Clap...the Frenchy fluffs will be honored to get the Del-icious treatment! thumbup

 thinking Guess that would be my cue to cough up the rest of those French Bichon Show pics... blush sweatdrop
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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2006, 04:18:58 AM »

As always Del your are a fount of information  flowers

I can use all the help I can get...even though you know I am a proponent of the French Look it is NOT just left to grow and is supposed to have judicious trimming.  I figure Poofy or Shaggy trimming for body shape has gotta be the same.  blush

I struggle to have the courage to even try...but since I have no groomers here who understand what I want to achieve I fear that I am going to have to stick to doing it myself....and I MUST get better at it! blink

I look forward to the next installment  clapping
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« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2006, 03:25:14 PM »

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BenjisMommy
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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2006, 06:40:44 PM »

Thanks Del for all this info  thumbup

I must say, I like the French look just as much as the puffy look..... I LOVE THEM BOTH!!!!!!!!

Bichons are beautiful in any cut, nothing can make them look bad  Stick Out Tongue Stick Out Tongue

 Bichons Rule Bichons Rule Bichons Rule Bichons Rule
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« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2006, 04:40:14 AM »

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« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2006, 01:02:37 PM »

Del........ thanks for all those INFORMATIVE threads...... I will read them ALL  crazy I PROMISE  crazy Laughing
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« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2006, 11:02:05 AM »

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« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2006, 11:11:01 AM »

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« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2006, 11:49:14 AM »

With the French Look if I understand it correctly...and it's how I do it with Boog.....you comb out your fluffer before the bath and let him air dry and the curls just stay. 

As for combing in between baths....I comb Boogie out and then spritz him with a little conditioner and water or some jojoba oil and it rejuvenates the curl and gets rid of the cotton wool that you created when ya combed em out.

Hope that makes some sense Lady  flowers
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« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2006, 12:03:04 PM »

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« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2007, 10:57:29 AM »

 thumbup WOW!  This is a great thread!   I know that I have not been on in a looooong time.  We've moved from NY to NC and if anyone of you have ever moved, you know how crazy it can be.  Well, I've been searching and searching for a groomer down here and I cannot find one that doesn't cut Tootsie & Harley like a Poodle crazy  It's very frustrating.  So my husband has informed me that HE is going to learn how to trim them like they should be.  This thread will come in handy! 

How is everyone anyway?  I'm so out of the loop on the site.  I see many new members and new babies cheerleader  I will try to keep up to date during the unpacking Crying

Thanks,
Shelly  original
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« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2007, 11:58:16 AM »

wave Shelly, glad you're back  cheerleader  Wow, from NY to NC, huh?  That's a big move and a big change of scenery.  Oh My  If your hubby does tackle the grooming, you gotta take lots of pics to show us how it goes.  I hope Tootsie and Harley and your non-furry kids are all doing OK.  Hope to see you 'round more.  Good luck with all the unpacking  yucky
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« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2007, 08:44:22 AM »

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« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2007, 09:55:35 AM »

Great reading here, BUT, still feel ignorant about a 'required' list of professional grade scissors to purchase and begin the learning process.  I read the one excellent site, but multiple $80.+ scissors are not in my plans. There surely must be one or two excellent sources of blunt end trimming scissors and thinning scissors which will work for serious learners like we are.  Right now I end up with real cheapies from local pet shops and these very expensive European alternatives.  What about the $20. to $40. range ????

Help !!!  Clouseau is 17 weeks old and most local groomers won't work with him until he has his rabies shot.  That won't be for some time.   Help

Tom and Kathy
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« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2007, 10:51:05 AM »

Great reading here, BUT, still feel ignorant about a 'required' list of professional grade scissors to purchase and begin the learning process.  I read the one excellent site, but multiple $80.+ scissors are not in my plans. There surely must be one or two excellent sources of blunt end trimming scissors and thinning scissors which will work for serious learners like we are.  Right now I end up with real cheapies from local pet shops and these very expensive European alternatives.  What about the $20. to $40. range ????

Help !!!  Clouseau is 17 weeks old and most local groomers won't work with him until he has his rabies shot.  That won't be for some time.   Help

Tom and Kathy
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Tom,

I just used regular "human" hair cutting scissors (less than $20) in the beginning for Max.  blush .. and little blunt nose scissors (for the eye area and paws) I purchased at PetCo.  flowers

I didn't get "fancy schmancy" scissors till just one year ago and did o.k.  flowers

Hope that helps, blush

Susan
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« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2007, 01:08:26 PM »

Thanks Susan ... it does help!  Our Petco has a set of 'medium' long blunt end scissors which I will pick up today. I do have a quality Andis clipper and several appropriate blades but will probably hold off until I read some more.

At some point, I still will need a 'well-accepted' short priority list of 'preferred' scissors and makers ... like absolute  MUST trimming size and model,  (then what?) ... thinning?,  finally, what around the face, ears, and private parts?   nono

Regards,
Tom B
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« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2007, 09:42:12 PM »

Tom,

The tools you will need will depend on the job you are looking to do. Are you looking to tidy him up betwen professional groomings, or are you looking to do him all on your own? If it is the former than cheaper shears will be fine. If you are intending to clip him all on your own, what style of trim will you be looking for? If it is a shorter length, you can use your clippers with a comb attachment with light scissoring (again, cheaper shears will be all right). If you are looking to keep him in a full scissored trim, the cheaper shears will not have the cutting edge to do a proper job. Geib has a few lines (Gator and Cheetahs) that are inexpensive (FYI, my cheapest shears are $250) and will do a decent job. If you are planning to do him at home you will need to invest in quality tools, not neccessarily top of the line but cheap tools won't hold up and will need constant replacement.

I don't know what your question is about the face, etc. If you are looknig for instructions on how to trim, Bbird's Blog has several detailed articles on that (links above). I hope I have helped some.

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« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2007, 10:42:26 PM »

You have helped .... and sobered me up a bit too ($$$) !!  crybaby  I will definitely be just 'tidying' him up between groomings for awhile at least.  Based on your comments, I will look at Geib Gator and Cheetah (I had bookmarked the site but so many 'lines' I didn't know which to focus on.). 

We are very warm here from May to Sept so I will keep him fairly short then.  As far as the 'face' is concerned, I was just keying off Bbird's Blog and one comment re. Arius-Eickert 5.5" curved shears which seem 'affordable' for ~$50.  Perhaps those are not an ideal 'learner's choice for us at this point.

Your comments address many concerns and are most welcome!

Tom and Kathy Bailey
St George, UT 
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« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2007, 12:54:14 AM »

No problem, glad I could help some. original Arius Eickhert is another line of shears in that range that will do the job (I'm sorry I didn't think of them for you, my experience with them is limited). if you haven't checked this distributor, www.petedge.com carries a few Geib and Arius Eickhert shears for a good $$, as well as some other brands that I have never used (but may fit your wallet more comfortably wink1).
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« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2007, 09:25:39 AM »

Tom, good to see you got help2 from Susan and Danielle.  Allow me blush to point you to an article see by Barbara Bird thumbsup, which I had referred to when I was buying my scissors.  Susan will attest.... a good-quality scissors really does nodding make a difference.

Let us know how you get on with home-grooming clapping... and be sure to post/share pics! Stick Out Tongue



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« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2007, 12:07:35 PM »

Thank-you all .......especially Susan,  Danielle, EDDEL, Barbara Bird, but ALL !!   yahoo  The learning is wonderful, but I'm impressed with the way it is 'flowing' smoothly toward some solutions.   As with all serious endeavors, each new idea brings some choices.  In my case, I am a serious cook (heavily BBQ/smoker at the moment) and that has introduced me to Japanese cutlery (in a big way!).  I have several good quality Japanese knives and also sharpen them myself (another serious endeavor).  I must now listen and absorb Barbara Bird's comments about Japanese and German scissors .... so that I am not 'scared off' of some good solutions, but avoiding overconfidence which could cause problems.  The Japanese steel is very hard, 'scary' sharp, and the convex edges are something I have no experience with.  No easy answers, but also very intriguing to sort through the issues! 

I certainly remain open to additional thoughts on this ....   hungry

Best regards,

Tom B


 
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« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2007, 05:22:50 PM »

I love convex shears. heart They give an awesome finish and are super light weight. But I don't sharpen my own shears, I send them out. shrug You certainly are doing your homework, I can't wait to hear about your grooming experiences cheerleader
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« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2007, 06:00:56 AM »

Thank-you all .......especially Susan,  Danielle, EDDEL, Barbara Bird, but ALL !!   yahoo  The learning is wonderful, but I'm impressed with the way it is 'flowing' smoothly toward some solutions......
Tom, there's another discussion meeting (about scissors too) that might interest you original
CLICK HERE to 'visit' said thread Yeah.


question for Danielle...... when should I 'send' my scissors for sharpening (as in after how many 'uses' or should it be a 'timed' exercise, like once every x months/year)?  Then again, my 2 pairs of scissors are just used once every 8 weeks blush..... not on a daily basis like yours.


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« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2007, 10:06:37 PM »

I like to send my shears in when the are no longer cutting the hair while the blade is open, but rather pushing it together before cutting. Clear as mud? You can do the tissue test. Take a facial tissue in one hand and let it hang it the air, and cut it with your shears (this is good to do once you receive them back from the sharpener as well to make sure thay are adjusted right). A sharp shear will make a straight cut from the crescent point to the tip. A dull/loose shear won't cut at all. A shear that is too tight will rip the tissue. This is what my mentor told me and I've always done it (whether there is any science invloved or not shrug Laughing )

edit to add: Some shears I send in all the time, while others go forever. It depends on the qualtiy of the blade, the quality of the sharpener (make sure they aren't just going to grind your blade away, find one who hones them), and what you use them for. This won't apply to Bianca original, but dirty hair will dull the blades much faster than clean hair (so only use them on freshly shampooed hair). You probably won't need to send them in more than once or twice a year (unles you drop them, which can upset the tension and nick the blade).
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« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2007, 10:11:43 PM »

thumbsup Thanks for the sharpening info Danielle!  flowers .. I was wondering the same nodding thing too!  blush
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« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2007, 11:48:32 AM »

I love convex shears. heart They give an awesome finish and are super light weight. But I don't sharpen my own shears, I send them out. shrug You certainly are doing your homework, I can't wait to hear about your grooming experiences cheerleader

I have a chance to add a new set of Arius Eickert Geisha 8315AS (Convex) 5.5" scissors as one of my first purchases!  Maybe an overkill to start, but they are an attractive offer.  My only other existing ones are Italian dropforged 7" straight which pass your 'tissue' test quite well. For the face, ears, and feet, I can either get a ball-tipped 6.5" or the A-E Geishas.  It's a hard choice being new, but the Geishas seem like such a fine quality tool to have longer term. Really no good basis for me to choose one or the other .... except that the 6.5" ball-tipped is so close to the length of the other straight scissors I have.  Grrrrrrrrr.

P.S.   Perhaps these (A-E Geisha) are much more a human hairstylist's tool ???

P.S.S. ... Contact with A-E seems to indicate that these fine scissors may not be ideal for pet hair ... although maybe not a proglem with clean hair and only a single dog application.  Based on this, I guess I will pass on this attractively priced scissor.   crybaby

P.S.S. ___ Bailed and ordered A-E 6.5" Ball-tip.  Clouseau is acting 'relieved' already !!!   rock

Tom B
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« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2007, 01:44:44 PM »

Thank You for answering my question Danielle!  I will nodding try the "tissue paper" test.


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« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2007, 06:26:18 PM »

Maybe I'm just having a 'grumpy' day, but with all my searching, and calling, I'm sort of turned off on Arius Eickert, especially their pet scissor/shear line.  Then I start to really step up and get a set of their better scissors (GeishaAS) and they are not really supportive of using them on my Bichon. 
I had started to order their 6.5" ball-tip scissors, and now am just 'put off'  A good alternative looks like Dubl Duck Gold 6.5" ball-tip for essentially the same cost.   The last irritation was the delay in ordering from ProGroomer.com while they took several hours to send me shipping charges by e-mail.  $8.50 for S/H ground (6-10 days).  The Dubl Duck Golds with a case and shipping are 83 cents more.

I'm trying to stay open-minded on this, and would appreciate comments to keep me from starting off with a mistake on my 'first' scissors for Clouseau.   Help if you can please.   bowdown

Tom B
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« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2007, 06:58:57 PM »

Maybe I'm just having a 'grumpy' day, ........ and would appreciate comments to keep me from starting off with a mistake on my 'first' scissors for Clouseau.   

  thinking I'm thinking maybe you just need to relax wine and buy the darn things before you give yourself  scared and ulcer!  muack Laughing

 clown I'm just playing truck with ya!  muack .. I'm sure whatever scissors you decide on will be just fine.  thumbsup
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« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2007, 07:33:06 PM »

..... good observation and advice.   snack  I tend to be fairly intolerant of 'unprofessional' professionals, but my nature is such that I rarely get 'stressed' about things .... more the 'don't get mad, get even' approach. 

What has not been clear until I really started to dig into this topic .... is the huge difference between what is offered for the pet groomer and for the human stylist.  Clearly, the many pro groomers HERE ... have learned what human products work for them and don't spend time worrying about all the rest of the huge morass of product offerings.  My 'ignorance' caused me to assume that there would be one or more fairly complete lines of high-end pet scissors/shears. What I find is that there are a couple products in one line, some in another, and a few odds and ends scattered around throughout various suppliers.  It's not the $50. purchases that concern me, it's the $100. _ $200. choices with few references to 'hang my hat on'.

I might be a 'slow learner', but will now take it a step at a time and pick each tool carefully.  Bear in mind, I am in a small town and there are not many places to see or touch quality products.  Whether any of the 'few' local groomers will share info with me is something I will have to go find out.   

Regards,
Tom B
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« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2007, 08:12:47 PM »

Tom, it sure seems like you had a stressful day! If there are any brands you have questions on I'll be happy to share my experience (if any) with those companies. Even the mid-range shears are a big investment, and I agree that it would feel better to have someone's advice on the product. As for ordering supplies, I have always been impressed with Petedge (formerly the NE Serum Company). They ship the same day and I have never had a problem with anything. Their East Coast distributor is in Waltham, MA, and I used to drive there to pick up orders when I was still in the state. I believe their West Coast distributor is out of NV, but I don't really remember for sure. Here is their website in case you decide to try them out: www.petedge.com

I kind of lost you when you were talknig about human stylist shear vs. pet grooming shears. The main differences between the two are size. Stylist shears max out at about 5", while grooming shears are usually 6"-10" in length (the blades). Because of the longer blades the shanks are designed differently to balance the weight. We have a few stylist shears at the salon for use on tiny puppies, etc. (we have a lot of dogs who are under 4 lbs.) Currently in my toolbox I have:

7" Talyn Regal Handle straight
7" Talyn Regal Handle curved
8.25" Geib Avanti Cobalt straight
8" Kenchii Yokohama straight
8" Kenchii Lotus straight
8" Les Poochs Unikoto straight
10" curved that I have no idea the brand!
Plus a few cheapies for rough in work/blocking

The Talyn shears are pretty good. I actually really loved them at first, but after a while I found them to be tiring on my wrist (the straights, I hardly ever use curved shears so maybe that's why they never bothered me!). You may find them to be perfect for you as you won't be using them 8 hours a day.

The Geibs and Kenchiis are pretty great, I use them for most of my finish work. I also own a few pairs of these myself that I will be using on my dog. I LOVE the Les Poochs shears Wub I only use them for special dogs, mostly standard poodles who get a lot of scissoring. If I could afford a pair of my own I would buy one!

Please don't stress about this, we are here to help Hug
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« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2007, 09:33:32 PM »

I cut Human hair on the side.  I went to a local beauty supply place and bought a pair of shears for $60.  They are very sharp and durable.  (Sharp enough to cut my skin Doh)    I thought,  thinking "If they cut human hair well, I'll try them for home grooming."   So, I went and bought a second pair to use on my fluffers fluff and they work great.  So, I invested $60, which bascially is cheaper then having the two of them groomed one time at $45/each! original
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Tom_B
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« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2007, 10:34:18 AM »

I continue searching and learnng ... and in one case .... I have to eat my own words ... but it is still 'crazy' !! I went to the Geib Factory Store site and counted different 'series' product categories for pet grooming.   There are 25 DIFFERENT sets like Gator, Cheetah, etc.  !! Give me a break! How would any normal person begin to figure out which categories are appropriate and then find that their desired shears are not availalble in that style?  Some body needs some marketing help!   

Right now I am looking hard at Kamisori to get a quality, curved, ball-tip scissor that I believe will do a great job.  They also have some straight shears which may be next on the list.  I doubt I will need anything of better quality for home use and can get on to more important things like .... enjoying Clouseau!!

Thanks for helping keep me focused.

Tom B
 

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Tom_B
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« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2007, 09:28:50 PM »

Tom, it sure seems like you had a stressful day! If there are any brands you have questions on I'll be happy to share my experience (if any) with those companies. Even the mid-range shears are a big investment ............(respectful edit) ...................

Please don't stress about this, we are here to help Hug


  Please allow me to revisit my earlier post to clarify a point.  I am still considering seriously a new Arius Eickert Geisha AS 5.5 inch shear available to me at a 'seemingly' great price.  Why would there be any serious concern about using these fine 'human' shears on a single Bichon Frise in a home scenario (~ weekly) ?  This shear is commonly priced at $192. and the steel should be very adequate to the task.  Is there something about blade thickness or profile, or ??? which makes this shear a questionable choice  for me now ??  A-E made this comment but quickly 'hedged' and said maybe no problem in a limited use scenario.  This sure leaves me with some unanswered technical questions.

Tom B
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bluebell
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« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2007, 10:05:09 PM »

  the steel should be very adequate to the task.  Is there something about blade thickness or profile, or ??? which makes this shear a questionable choice  for me now ??  A-E made this comment but quickly 'hedged' and said maybe no problem in a limited use scenario.  This sure leaves me with some unanswered technical questions.

Hi Tom,

Unfortunately I have never used the Arius Eickherts. I have read about them on Bbird, but have never bought any (no real reason, just haven't at this point). I guess they might be concerned about the wear and tear of using them on a dog compared to a human (more hair to cut on a dog). shrug I wish I could help to answer some of your questions. However, you may find some of the answers with the Blade Guyz Team. If they don't have it already posted on their site, you should be able to message them (*hint* they frequent the bulletin board under the tools heading at www.groomers.net). They are very knowledgeable, and I would recomend their services to anybody in the US.

http://www.bladeguyz.com/
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Tom_B
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« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2007, 11:25:12 PM »

Many thanks!  I have registered and posted (ToolTalk _Shears_ Selection & Fit) as you suggested.  I do appreciate your support.

Tom B
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bluebell
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« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2007, 11:37:12 PM »

I am truly impressed by your efforts Tom! Perhaps you will be answering my shear questions soon, way to go! thumbsup
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« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2007, 01:28:43 AM »

However, you may find some of the answers with the Blade Guyz Team. If they don't have it already posted on their site, you should be able to message them (*hint* they frequent the bulletin board under the tools heading at www.groomers.net). They are very knowledgeable, and I would recomend their services to anybody in the US.

http://www.bladeguyz.com/

Wow! shocking2 I just watched a video on the bladeguys site about taking care of your scissors. Very informativerock  Thanks for the link, Danielle!  flowers
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