Red fur..

[MamaMia]

My Cesar has runny eyes.. Ive been through so many different treatments with him, tablets, drops, ointments and flushed his tear-ducts and he's still brown-red under his eyes, and paws. My vet obviously doesnt know what she's doing and im tired of paying thousands without results!! Any advice? Ill try anything, he's obsessed with his paws and icky eyes..

[Princess Lucy Loulou (Tina)]

Lucy had runny eyes but when she was diagnoised with Dry Eye it went away,  with her treatment it came back really bad  but since I took he off Burn's Mini Bites it is clearing up even though she is still on medication,  so i'm convinced it as her food  it may be what you are feeding him 

[Freedom (Sandie)]

Some of us have found a solution to this problem by changing what goes IN!

Mary Ellen found she had to give distilled water for her dogs to drink; apparently there is too much iron, or some other mineral(s) in her city water.

My dogs needed to go onto a grain free food.  It took about a week for things to clear up after I made the switch.

Alot of it is trial and error, from what I've read on here over the past 2 years.

[EDDEL]

Mia, I moved your thread from [Health & Nutrition] board to here, as this is where all our tear-stain related threads are.

As pointed out by Tina & Sandie, it could be due to his food or water.  What kind of a diet is Cesar on now?  Kibble?  Raw/BARF?  Home-cooked?  

Other causes could be genetics (as in, small/blocked tear ducts) or environmental (allergies).  If his tear ducts are very small (a common occurrence in the breed so I've heard), it'll clog-up after awhile even if the ducts have been flushed.  

Does Hero have the same problem?  What about Cesar's fur-mom?  

Lastly, when you say "obsessed with his paws", do you mean Cesar is constantly licking them?  If so, it's either boredom (a bad habit) or allergies.  Likely the latter if he's tearing badly, especially during certain times of the year.

PS: You can read/check other tear-stain related threads in this [Grooming & Care] board for more answers/tips.

[MamaMia]

Tear-stains would be the word, ofcourse!! lol red fur.. oh well. Thanks for moving the thread! His parents look great, Hero had his tear-ducts flushed tho but he's looked great since! i dont think its seasonal allergies since he's had this all winter ?? He's constantly licking his paws, looks awful! I'll have a lot more questions for the vet this time around.. thanks! and they get Royal Canine vet care addition, young adult feed.. Ill definitely change to the allergy kind!

[Alison]

How old is her? Abby had a lot of staining when she was teething.Alison

[MamaMia]

He's almost 3

[Lizzie]

It's back to basics I'm afraid.    Distilled water can help with the staining and also you do need to look at his kibble.  There is a thread on the forum with the kibble grading.   You want a kibble with no beet pulp as this can cause the staining.  Myself and a few other breeders were using Burns but had a falling out with them as the dogs started staining and were out of condition.  The dogs were put on James Wellbeloved but this resulted in even more staining.  After much corresponding I changed back to Burns about 4 months ago.  As they say - the proof is in the pudding and they all have white faces now.  So yes as Sandie says - you have to look at what goes in. 

[Luana]

My Charlie had a lot of trouble with his ears and paws, bacteria.  He would lick his paws constantly making the fur quite red.  He didn't have any problem with his eyes, however.  It went on for so long that we finally had him tested for allergens and found he was allergic to poultry, wheat, dairy, barley, and flax.  When I found a food that didn't have any of those (not an easy task), he cleared up nicely.  The tests include blood work for both indoor, including foods, and outdoor allergies.  The tests aren't cheap, but it would have taken me forever to find all those allergens on my own. 

I do hope it is something simple for Caesar, and that you don't have to go through all that.  Good luck.

[MattiesMom (MaryEllen)]

My advice is similar:  Look at the food, treats, and water that you are giving him.  Without allergy testing, you can try a wheat and corn free food and avoid poultry as the protein source.  At the very least try something that has only rice as the grain.  I don't know the brands available in Norway, but here in the States we can get a food that is limited ingredient: Wellness Simple Solution, which is one meat (lamb or salmon) and brown rice.  It has no dyes, is organic, and is made for dogs with allergies.  If you can find a food like that and try it for a month, you can probably find out if food is the issue because he would more than likely begin to clear up.  You could also try making your own dogfood if you want.  It's not so hard and there is information here in threads in "health and nutrition".  There are also lots of recipes on the web.  So, to sum up:
Cesar drinks only distilled water.
Cesar has only grainfree treats like jerky.
Cesar's food is a basic meat (avoid poultry except duck) and vegetables with only rice for the grain and definitely no beet pulp.
    You will most likely find that you have a happier, more comfortable, and whiter bichon.  Best of luck, MaryEllen

[darwinsmom (Chris)]

I'm thinking all your posts are related. He may have a gluten intolerance similar to celiac disease in humans. I would try to eliminate grains and dyes and see where you are. (BTW I'm a people NP, and sometimes I overreach when translating to dogs, but it can't hurt...)
Chris

[MamaMia]

Allright so to sum up what i should ask the vet next app:
Test him for infections, small tear-ducts, and have him try a new feed for allergic dogs..
And ofcourse drops every night and dry off any discharge.. Im shaving his face around the eyes tomorrow, his eyes are sticking more out than Hero so just to be sure its not irritation ill try that. he wont look like a bichon then ( oh well everything to get him better!!

[Andrea]

Just a side question for Mary Ellen- you advised not to give chicken for protein- what is bad about chicken?  Noah gets a lot of chicken as I thought that it was very mild and when they are sick the vet always suggests that when giving food to use chicken and rice. 

[pam]

If I remeber correctly Royal Canin isn't very ethical either.
http://www.uncaged.co.uk/petfood.htm

Pam

[Annie36]

To answer your question Andrea....Chicken is a very common allergen in dogs....since it is so common it is one of the things vets will omit in the diet first to see if it helps....Jake is not allergic to chicken, but is allergic to beef and pork.....each dog is different and unless you do the allergy tests, you must do the trial and error method(elimination method) till you find what the problem is if it is food. Jake has indoor allergies as well as environmental allergies too. So almost anything could be a trigger, like dust mites and rag weed just to name a couple. I did the elimination method and thought I had found the problem only to find out really quick I was completely wrong....

Mia, I would start with just the water change and see what happens, you should see a difference right away(week) if it is the water.....also read the food labels on everything that he eats, make sure if it is red in nature or food dyes of any kind, he doesn't eat it. After that I would go to the vet or change his food.

[Coopersmom (Erica)]

  But, I just wanted to share my experience with Cooper's "red fur."  When we first got him, his tear staining was really bad and he was constantly licking his paws.  We had kept him on the food that the breeder had recommended...and the Vet told us this was a good food.  (I didn't know what was causing the coloring, but I knew I didn't like it.)  When I asked the Vet about the tear staining, she told me it was normal and that I would just have to get used to it.  (seriously!?!)

He was also throwing up a lot. He has a very sensitive stomach...we took him to the vet several times and had all sorts of tests done.  Finally after several trips, hundreds of dollars, and doing my own research, I put Cooper on Innova Evo.  Within a week he had stopped throwing up all the time, but more importantly...I noticed he didn't chew at his paws anymore, and all of his tearstains were gone.  (I recently switched him to Orijen because Evo became to rich as he was growing.  Orijen is working very well for his primary food)

After Cooper got neutered and he was given the anesthesia and the pain medicine he got his tearstains back Immediately...Crazy right!?!  Now, I'm even more convinced that this is caused by what goes in.  They took about 3 weeks to go away again.

I don't want to sound like I'm against going to the Vet, but we spent a ton of $$$ at the beginning, and we didn't get any help.  Our Vet still tries to get him to eat Science Diet (which they sell there, and I don't approve of the ingredients for Cooper) even though he's doing great on his food now.  My advice would be to do a lot of your own research...try food, water, and treats first as the others have reccomended...

Cooper and I hope the Best for you!!!     Please keep us posted 

[MamaMia]

Yeah i know, ive left a bunch of money with the vet too .. I should be spending that money on a new stroller and car seat!!*sighs* I cancelled his next appt to do more research on my own, when it comes to what goes IN im not really sure, he never throws up, he's been on the same feed since we got him and he was fine as a puppy and young adult until last year so could it really be the food?? Ive talked to others about our vet and it seems she's often clueless, but heres a ton of bichon owners here and she must know the money that lies in these tear stains.. Us owners will do anything!! (Yes shes a &%# too) but i will try changing food if she doesnt come up with a satisfying answer next time!!

[Lizzie]

Mia  lets try this doing baby steps. First don't cut away too much hair from Cesar's eyes otherwise you will only end up staining his skin.  Wash and dry his eyes daily.  You can put some Vaseline (petroleum jelly)  over the stain to give a bit of protection.  Try the distilled water first although I would imagine that your water would be purer than ours and see how it goes.  Do this for a week or so and let us know the results. 

[piggle]

hi im new hr and not sr im using this thr rite way, but i just wanted to reply to your post as my  bichon had really bad stains on eyes, ive changed his water i give him boiled kettle water once cooled, i also aply vaseline round his eyes each day, ive been doing this for a few weeks and its defo helped and most ov the stains have now grown out .  

[Alison]

Hi Piggle,welcome.We'd love to hear all about you.If you go to the introductions section you can tell us all about you and your Bichon.Alison

[MattiesMom (MaryEllen)]

I'm convinced more than ever that the tear staining, etc.  is caused internally in the gut/digestive system.  So, what goes in most certainly affects it.  Try the distilled water.  Reduce the ingredients in the dogfood to just a few simple ones.  Add digestive enzymes and a probiotic.  Some high quality dogfoods add these, but not to the level you probably need.  I add them supplementally.  Here is a link to the ones I use:
http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-Probiotic-Blend/999168.aspx
http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Prozyme/228000.aspx
Also, see this link here in BCA.  Some of us have been trying Greek yogurt with some success.
http://bichon.ca/forum/index.php/topic,16174.0.html
Tear staining has been a battle for me with Mattie!  She started out with extreme staining.  With experimentation I have found what works for us.  I hope this helps you.  Best wishes, MaryEllen

[Maxiegirl (Amber)]

Maxie had horrible stains for the longest time.  I would constantly ask our former vet if there was anything I could do to clear it up/what caused it/etc and she would always tell me "there's nothing you can do, some dogs just have it."  I didn't buy it. 

We later switched Maxie's food due to digestive problems and her tear staining disappeared completely.  I haven't determined exactly what was in the prior food that caused it (admittedly, I haven't looked very hard, it probably wouldn't be that hard to narrow down), but I know the change in diet is what cleared her up.  So, I agree totally with the others...it's about what is going in.

Maxie did distilled water for the entire time she was stained, and it never helped (most likely because there was another contributing factor).  Now, she drinks regular water and is still 100% clear of stains.  It's nice to see my girl's white face again!

[furby]

yes i totally agree with the food ethos, i,m a groomer and i only sell 2 types of food in my shop, burns and arden grange, both are hypoallergenic, there is so much rubbish and artificial dye in commercial dod food etc that it is no wonder our dogs are suffering with staining, just a few suggestions try a good quality hypoallergenic dog food, use bottled water, probiotic yogurt added to food, use stainless steel bowls too as they do not harbour bacteria, don,t give any treats with wheat in and make sure ears are healthy. hope this helps

[MamaMia]

WELL, we've had our LAST vet visit to that awful woman regarding these tear stains. NOTHING is working. She drugs him, opens the tear-ducts and sends us off with the same medicatin as last time, i mean, are you joking?! She's a fan of the "thats just how bichons are" too.. He did have a quality feed to begin with and he was fine we've never changed but now we're in the process of doing that anyway just to see.. Altho im positive thats not the problem.. Our water here in Norway is fine too, Done drops every night, trimming the hair and vaseline. im so desperate, the whole dog has changed, hes obsessed with his paws and clearly in distress about the eyes, and less social! Cant imagine having my eyes run and being clogged and yucky 24/7! Anyway we're driving out of town to get a second opinion..